Idea suggested by Anti-Cancer

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Idea suggested by Anti-Cancer

Postby mary giacoletti » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:06 pm

I would like to follow up on suggestion by Anti-Cancer in NY to start an on-line petition which could be used collectively by groups or individuals across the country. I am in San Luis Obispo County and I am trying to get signatures on a petition which I will present at a meeting of our Air Pollution Control District's Board of Director's meeting at the end of March.
I am asking that the issue of "fine particulate pollution" be put on their agenda, with the ultimate goal of having woodburning banned, except in those those instances where it is the only available form of heating.
I would appreciate all creative ideas as to presentation and collecting of signatures. Mary Giacoletti[/u]
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is this website allowed to have a petition?

Postby Anti-Cancer from New York » Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:21 pm

i am not sure this website is allowed to have an online petition? Is it?
Maybe only Mary would know. I forget what the restrictions might be.
Is Mary able to respond to this? maybe somebody could email her.
Woodsmoke causes cancer. Woodsmoke kills. Cigarette smoke kills 1200 people a day in America. About 1 out of 2 people now have cancer in the United States. Without your health, you have nothing
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Postby FriendofAir » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:27 am

Online and e-mail petitions are more difficult than they sound. Here's an interesting link that discusses petitions in detail.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/internet.htm
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Here are some petition notes from Souvien in Canada...

Postby pm2.5mary » Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:17 pm

This is from a note that S sent to another activist in Canada: They also got a local paper to do a poll there. Clean Air won!

1) On the Stop Wood Burning petition you should talk with Stella Haley, ECO ACTION CANADA - 514-699-SAVE

2) You should also ask her about the manufacturer`s rebate of $300 for people buying new wood stoves. I guess what happens here is that more and more burning is thus encouraged as more and more is purchased. She has been talking with the EPA people in the US about these.
...
3) I spoke yesterday with the Mayor on the telephone - as he said at the Council meeting on Monday that he has asthma. He has not made the connection between this and wood smoke - but there is evidence that asthma is a major result of wood burning. I should have mentioned this to him. See BurningIssues.org for details. He thinks that the answer is to get provincial and/or federal levels to deal with the wood burning issue. But he did not close the door on dealing with the issue again. He said he is bothered by smoke from Kirkland - right beside his home. This is the argument for dealing with this issue at a higher level.

Good luck,

Souvien
"Particulate pollution is the most important contaminant in our air. ...we know that when particle levels go up, people die. " (Joel Schwartz, Ph.D., Harvard School of Public Health, E Magazine, Sept./Oct. 2002)
Find more at http://burningissues.org
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Postby MSG » Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:52 pm

yea try to block a community trying to get rid of the old smoke dragons and replace them with clean burning appliances. Smart. Lets get rid of all wood burning and let the coal plants produce our electric heat and gas companies pollute our earth with there mining. Smart. real smart.
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Postby Anti-Cancer from New York » Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:11 pm

woodburner: the smoke in my town travels up and then it comes back down and clouds up the road for a mile or two and stinks up my car for at least a mile. maybe your smoke is different. but look on the blog and see the facts: WOODSMOKE CAN TRAVEL 700 MILES AND IT STAYS IN THE AIR FOR THREE WEEKS IF THERE IS NO RAIN.
you are probably a pretty young guy--in your twenties, i would guess.
according to eliot spitzer's well researched report, one outdoor wood boiler furnace gives off as much polluting toxic emissions as 45 passenger cars. read it for yourself. it is on this website. have you done any reading or research on the topic of woodsmoke? if so, where???
Woodsmoke causes cancer. Woodsmoke kills. Cigarette smoke kills 1200 people a day in America. About 1 out of 2 people now have cancer in the United States. Without your health, you have nothing
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Postby slowzuki » Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:03 am

So why not ban the high emission owb's that produce up to 200+ times the pollution of some EPA stoves? Eliminating one high polluting owb is a lot easier and more effective than eliminating 200+ epa tier two stoves or the 45 cars.

It makes no sense to try to stop other people trying to make progress, what if I tried to take away your car or a heat source from your home because I don't like that type of emissions.

Anti-Cancer from New York wrote:boiler furnace gives off as much polluting toxic emissions as 45 passenger cars. r
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Postby begreen9 » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:09 am

Banning can be a draconian measure guaranteed to meet stiff resistance. In many cases the ban could be challenged in court. Enforcement can be a huge financial burden on the county. It's better to raise the standards of OWBs to clean air requirements.

There is progress. Many of us are trying to educate OWB owners on the issues and how to burn cleanly. And I haven't heard anyone encourage the purchase of the old style beasts in a couple years. This is not to say they aren't stil lbeing sold, but hopefully the message is getting out.

http://www.hpba.org/index.php?id=229
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Postby Anti-Cancer from New York » Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:27 pm

hey guys :P :P :P :P or girls:
boys and girls--just kidding. anyway, yes, i agree that it is much easier to ban high-polluting outdoor wood boilers. my neighbor has one with a catalytic converter and you still see alot of smoke and the neighborhood gets smokey. pretty soon we ought to call all our rural towns SMOKEYVILLE, SINCE we are allowing woodsmoke to polllute our small towns. it is sad that alot of people try to get away from polluted air in the cities and they go to small towns, but when small towns do not care much about certain issues, then there is woodsmoke everywhere.
eliot spitzer's report quotes peter ivanovich from the american lung association who said: 90 % of New York State air does NOT MEET FEDERAL HEALTH STANDARDS. what does that tell you about everyone's priorities? i read california and new york state have some of the worst air in the country. What does that tell you???
ABOUT BANNING OUTDOOR WOOD FURNACES, I WAS TOLD BY A CODES OFFICER THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO FIX THOSE OUTDOOR WOOD FURNACES SO THAT THEY WOULD GIVE OFF LESS SMOKE. THEY ARE ONLY ABOUT 50% EFFICIENT, IF THAT, I HAVE READ.
Woodsmoke causes cancer. Woodsmoke kills. Cigarette smoke kills 1200 people a day in America. About 1 out of 2 people now have cancer in the United States. Without your health, you have nothing
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Postby begreen9 » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:14 pm

AC, your parole officer is uninformed. These stoves are often so basic and crude that simple changes can make a very big difference.

But you are correct though underestimating, they are often way less than 40% efficient. However, did you know that there are several wood boilers that are approaching 80%+ efficiency. All one needs to do is put a metal shed around one with a decent height stack and voila, efficient outdoor wood burner!
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Postby drmiller100 » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:32 am

Anti-Cancer from New York wrote:hey guys :P :P :P :P or girls:
boys and girls--just kidding. anyway, yes, i agree that it is much easier to ban high-polluting outdoor wood boilers. my neighbor has one with a catalytic converter and you still see alot of smoke and the neighborhood gets smokey. p.


the epa did a study of those outdoor boilers, and they figured out that 3 of the top manfuacturers with the catalytic converters were polluting paladium and copper into the atmosphere.

if your neighbors is putting out a lot of smoke, odds are good that it is too late, and your lungs are already full of paladium, a known carcinogen.
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Postby bodhi » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:04 am

MSG wrote:yea try to block a community trying to get rid of the old smoke dragons and replace them with clean burning appliances.


i think msg has a point here. although my preference would be to stop using wood combustion for an energy/heat source,... less is more. whatever we can do to clean up the air will help.
hopefully there are new studies on the way to determine whether or not the recent stoves live up to the stats.
~bodhi

Harley wrote:Perhaps its the order you put these in which, to me indicates all you really want to do is ban wood burning, but to burn anything else is OK. Why wouldn't the first priorty be to work for solar and wind driven power (and I'll offer up another one... tidal or other hydraulic)... THEN, once there is a good source of electric powere that's not generated from burning fossil fuels.... get a good reliable electric car to reduce their emmissions.... once that's done - electric will be cheap, and noone would even think about burning wood, right?

mmmmm i like.
excellent food for thought...
~bodhi
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Postby Anti-Cancer from New York » Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:46 pm

in the news such as the ny times newspaper they have stated that there is no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke, including woodsmoke which is secondhand smoke, cuz as woodburner said, we are not smoking people's chimneys or stove pipes.
but there is no good way of burning wood. it puts woodsmoke into the air, even with elevated smoke stacks. there are a couple of raised smoke stacks in my neighborhood and all it does is make the smoke travel farther down the road. all the soot sinks and travels farther .
my codes officer is not uninformed. he got his information from the state , who said there is no real way to get outdoor wood boilers to be much better. they will always give off clouds of smoke. as i said, i have a neighbor with a catalytic converter on his outdoor wood furnace and it gives off lots of smoke and travels at least 1500 feet -2000 feet and i do not like it covering my lawn with smoke, and getting in my house. my eyes burn and it is hard to breathe around wood smoke.
Woodsmoke causes cancer. Woodsmoke kills. Cigarette smoke kills 1200 people a day in America. About 1 out of 2 people now have cancer in the United States. Without your health, you have nothing
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Postby bodhi » Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:59 am

AC,
are you referring to the recent report by the surgeon general concerning
tobacco smoke?
http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/
while the woodsmoke that a neighbor of a wood burner inhales
would qualify as 2nd hand smoke, the surgeon general, in this paper, was referring to tobacco smoke.
~bodhi
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