GREATER MONTRÉAL AREA WOOD BURNING

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Canadian petitions to ban residential wood burning

Postby Smokelessinvancouver » Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:05 pm

My 2 new petitions are for Canadians only. My online you have signed.
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Postby Wilberforce » Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:22 pm

Ernest: sued for what?
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Suits

Postby Ernest Grolimund » Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:45 pm

The newspaper warned of a slap suit of anything the woodburning companies could think of such as slander, even if everything said was true and documented. The paper may have had political ties to the Governor and the editor may have been pro woodburning. Remember what the news said about Gov. Blago... attacking the Chicago Times to get an editor fired. I do not understand the murky waters of politics and money and favors but it exists.

I get sloppy here sometimes in my writings but in my speeches I quoted the EPA, EDF, ALA, DEP, Dr. Brown, etc, and was more careful. Nobody has sued yet, while I am trying to work with the DEP and a Governors advisor but it could happen. The Governor is not doing anything and ignoring me so I am now essentially complaining to the Boards of Engineers and all the other professions about poor professional action all the way around the state government. When your daughter's life is at stake, this kind of action is neccesary and you do not think of the consequences of vengeful actions.
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Postby Wilberforce » Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:27 pm

I'm not understanding something here: slander and libel are falsehoods and untruthfulness.
How can someone get sued for making truthful statements? And what would that accomplish?
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Slap suits

Postby Ernest Grolimund » Fri Dec 26, 2008 8:20 pm

The purpose of slap suits is to tie people up in courts and force them to pay lawyers to defend them and take up their time and scare them and stress them and punish them.

You are not privvy to some of the letters that were written to the Governor about me and my "fearmongering" and "grossly exageraterated rhettorical statements" and mistatements of the facts surrounding wood chip boilers which were designed by professional engineers following accepted norms of design and et cetera.

These letters were included in the report to the Governor and the Editor read them and knew about me from listening to the forum on TV and hearing my comments repeated on PBS.

You are doing a good service to humanity by providing information to the world but I am taking that information and confronting economic titans with millions of dollars trying to sell chip boilers, pellet boilers, pellet stoves, pellets, chips, timber, cut firewood, stoves, inserts and everyone in the Democratic and Republican party seemed to be supporting the Governor who was seemingly trying to follow Gore in promoting a carbon nuetral, renewable resource that could bring in millions of dollars of tax revenue to replace revenue lost because logging for lumber is dying and all the lumber mills are shutting down and 90% of Maines land is wooded and used to be logged.
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Postby Wilberforce » Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:11 am

I can reassure you, Ernest, that if anyone accuses you of "fearmongering," the ultimate burden of
proof lies on your accuser, not on you. Such a thing would be almost impossible for a manufacturer
of known hazardous products (e.g. OWBs) to prove, given that you are providing pertinent facts and
accurate information describing the product's negative attributes, according to research studies.
In my opinion, anyone foolish enough to try to squelch these facts would be putting himself in danger
of shooting a hole in his own foot, so to speak.

I would say that the debate is over on wood smoke. That is, there should be absolutely no question
as to its toxicity, and the fact that their products create ample amounts of it. At this point in time,
anyone arguing the converse of this may as well be arguing that the earth is flat. Even OWB owners
know that their machines smoke far too much, and that particle air pollution is bad for health. In fact,
fine airborne particle effects are so important to human health that we even see it in with the daily
weather report. Do people think that they put the particulate chart up on the Weather Channel's local
weather report for the pretty colors? Or is it there because particles can be harmful to inhale? (dangerous
to inhale for some people)

Why are some wood burners still in the denial stage on this? I think it is psychological. They may fear loss
of a beloved heating source (wood.) In reality, if you think about it this way: fifty years hence, I don't think
wood will be much in use anyway, since by then, there will have been a giant push toward carbon-neutral
(meaning carbon-absent) energy sources. And cutting down whole forests may become a thing of the past,
since wood and paper products will become more and more expensive by that time.
(this is starting to happen already!)

That carbon-neutral push is already underway, and is gaining momentum. Let's feed that fire.
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slap suits

Postby Ernest Grolimund » Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:05 pm

Perhaps you are trying to alleviate concerns over slap suits to encourage others like me to sue and do whatever they can to fight the woodburning but I have been getting warnings of slap suits from many sources, ministers, editors, lawyers, and government officials. Millionaires do sue people all the time though their suits are groundless. They know but do it anyhow. I never would do that. If I say I am considering suit then I mean it and I never try to do harm to even the people I sue. I have even given the government and polluters warnings to try to work things out without the cost and stress of court. Individuals like me normally do everything they can to aviod suits except when their lives are threatened. Governors however have Attorney Generals who have to defend them even when they are obviously wrong and they surround themselves with lawyers. Whenever anyone like me approaches they have no fear and sometimes take notice of someone so brave and so committed to a cause to go to that much trouble. That may be the case with me.

There is a very unusual confluence of factors surrrounding my situation. First, my wife and I are very well educated in environmental matters and we are both very spiritual and believe you have to contribute to charitable causes with money or time and effort. Then there is the life and death urgency to the matter that was demonstrated by a neighbors heart attack and a daughters asthma attack and the degree of documentation of it that we achieved. I keep trying to hand off the problem to more qualified scientists and health officials but all of them have dropped the ball.

There is little or no recognition of the problem outside of the scientific community and people with knowledge like you and I are very rare. We are at the start of a 40 year war perhaps like the tobacco war. Pm2.5mary has been at it for twenty years for instance and Gore has been at the global warming problem for 30 years.

I do plan to continue to be an activist but I need to be careful. As you know from reading some of my blogs, I get sloppy sometimes and make mistakes. I appreciate the feedback I get from blogging here. It is better to make my mistakes here than elsewhere.

Someday, I will try to get that information from NASA showing that the oxygen content of the atmosphere has decreased 50%. But I have many pressing things I am working on and it is not a high priority. Your warning about that statement being "out there" also is telling me to drop that line of approach. The engineer in me sometimes leads me into seemingly strange areas of science as it does you, so it is good to get grounded sometimes. KISS. Keep it simple for the stupid like me.
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